A Proud Parent
..declares with much happiness that her blog baby has turned one today.
And on this special occassion, dear Silly M(a)id-on would like to say a few words to you all…
Ga!!
Ok, that was just a word..but she’s just one..what did ya expect?
On a serious note though, a few special mentions are in order-
Samir Bhaiya and his entire blogroll – all that reading got me started in the first place.
©hinaman and Gaurav – for the opportunities to go beyond Silly M(a)id-on.
Homer – for the kind words on and off the record (I mean on the blog and on gtalk ) 
Leela – for letting out the fangirl in me to the world!
Thanks to everyone who has read/commented/advised/inspired over the last one year. It has been a lot of fun. Don’t let it stop.
Aww… this baby is cho chweet!
[Reply]
Leela
2 Nov 09 at 6:34 pm
Happy Birthday Megha…. Party time!
Cheers,
[Reply]
Homer
2 Nov 09 at 6:45 pm
congratulations
[Reply]
Sameer
2 Nov 09 at 9:13 pm
Congrats and all the best for your future journey
[Reply]
namya
2 Nov 09 at 10:15 pm
silly maid is taking care of this baby beautifully…
looking fwd to many more silly m(a)id-on years…
[Reply]
straight point
3 Nov 09 at 12:51 am
Congratulations and keep up the great work
[Reply]
achettup
3 Nov 09 at 2:13 am
Congrats
.
[Reply]
Purna
3 Nov 09 at 2:24 am
I can tell you, the headline got me thinking. Keep writing Megha.
[Reply]
Naked Cricket
3 Nov 09 at 3:26 am
Whoa! This baby was running not merely walking even before it’s 1st birthday? Congrats. And keep ruuning.
[Reply]
Megha Reply:
November 3rd, 2009 at 8:56 am
Thanks a lot for all the wishes guys.
[Reply]
adverbin
3 Nov 09 at 6:11 am
Good on you miss for completing one year of blogging. Here’s to more Aussie baiting chat
Cheers !
[Reply]
Megha Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 6:55 am
Thanks TG..you won’t be disappointed as far as the Aussie baiting goes
[Reply]
Tifosiguy
3 Nov 09 at 7:01 pm
Many congratulations Megha!
It won’t exactly be breaking news to you but yes, lemme repeat it’s another testimonial to genuinely endorse your wonderful efforts through the year – you are doing a wonderful job with your baby!
I’d just like you to do what wrote as your last line in this post -”Don’t let it stop”.
I’m sure the fun, insights,thoughts, discussions, would come naturally with whatever you post.
Here’s to many more such birthdays in the future – Cheers!
[Reply]
Shailesh
3 Nov 09 at 9:34 pm
Sentense me for using that last sentence, call me plague-in-the-wrist but I think that’s the way. DON’T LET IT STOP.
[Reply]
Som
3 Nov 09 at 11:42 pm
oyeeeee..I have been pipped to the post by Shailesh. He pre-empted me with that line!
[Reply]
Som
3 Nov 09 at 11:43 pm
Shailesh, Som..thanks…I wouldn’t know how to stop to be honest..connecting with fellow fans through blogs has helped me appreciate the game so much more. As if I wasn’t obsessed enough!
[Reply]
Megha
4 Nov 09 at 7:10 am
“And on this special occassion, dear Silly M(a)id-on would like to say a few words to you all…
Ga!!”
LOLMAX…for lines like these (and cricket, of course!) I love your blog..Happy Birthday, Silly!
[Reply]
Megha Reply:
November 5th, 2009 at 8:49 am
Thanks dear…I have some really good sources of education on the art of creating lines like these…such as your gtalk status
[Reply]
Anusha
5 Nov 09 at 7:52 am
happy birthday SillyMaiden… Many more too.
[Reply]
Megha Reply:
November 7th, 2009 at 9:08 pm
Thanks Scorpi
[Reply]
scorpicity
7 Nov 09 at 2:59 am
Omg, how did I not see this before?
Happy blogaversary, dear!
Maybe we’ll have a joint party to soon: my “goo” to your “ga”.
*wipes tear* My my, they have grown, haven’t they?
[Reply]
Megha Reply:
November 7th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
lol…thanks dear…yeah..time flies by with these little ones
[Reply]
Maithreyi
7 Nov 09 at 12:47 pm
I loved your blog!
[Reply]
Megha Reply:
November 8th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Thanks Arjun! Keep coming back
[Reply]
Arjun
8 Nov 09 at 2:15 am
Hi Megha,
Came here through a comment you posted on Leela’s blog.
Technically I don’t know you, so I shouldn’t be here, but if it’s a party, everyone’s invited, right?
Congrats, and write more often!
Sharath
[Reply]
Megha Reply:
November 9th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Thanks Sharath! Of course you are invited to the party. The only condition is that you can’t disappear after the party..you gotta keep visiting
[Reply]
Sharath
9 Nov 09 at 1:27 am
Congratulations are in order!
We just have 2 questions:
1. Where is the cake?
2. Is Ajit Agarkar the father? Because He is the father of all blogs.
[Reply]
Megha Reply:
November 9th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
MTJAG
Thanks!
Here you go
1.
2. Ewww….NOOOOOOOOOOO….
[Reply]
MoreThanJustAGame
9 Nov 09 at 6:11 pm
Megha
That bloke in armball, has some ‘ balls’ to block me from commenting because I just said SRT ain’t greater than Sir Donald Bradman. So here I am in your blog – always love a discussion, albeit with sane blokes ( and then one who runs the armball blog, ain’t it !)
Can I take you up on dismissing the Ponting’s match winning ability ?
For me personally, it seems a bit daft that you downgrade his achievement because he was in a great team.
I have a different take on it – he could easily have been one amongst the also rans. But he didn’t. In the great team – his name stood out loud and clear amongst the batsmen. That is not easy.
Equally since he was in a great team, what is the motivation to play well. You know that if you don’t do well, someone else would come and do the job. That’s not what you see is it ?
People are ranting and raving about all of SRT’s stats. If Ponting plays for 20 years, it easy to see he will overtake SRT’s stats at least in terms of runs. Might not get the 100′s. For ex, he has played about 100 ODI’s lesser than SRT, and is about 4500 runs behind him. The thing though is that Ponting averages about 43 in ODI’s, so simple maths says he would also cross the 17k run mark, in his 440 odd ODI.
Equally his test average is better than SRT’s. So stats wise Ponting most likely will beat SRT’s record. Added to it, the wins in tournaments, the WC’s, the test series wins. Hmm I sure SRT might look at that whole package with more than a touch of envy
Cheers !!
[Reply]
Megha Reply:
November 9th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
Thanks for your comment Dilip and welcome to the blog!
I need to gather my thoughts on this whole Ponting vs Tendulkar debate. Reply I will, whether as a comment or a new post. But bear with me a couple of days, will ya?
[Reply]
Dilip
9 Nov 09 at 8:25 pm
@ Dilip
“I just said SRT ain’t greater than Sir Donald Bradman”
I agree with you. No one, I repeat no one, is as great a batsman as Bradman was. No other sportsperson has outperformed his fellow practitioners as comprehensively as Bradman has. He is, quite simply, a freak among freaks.
“he could easily have been one amongst the also rans. But he didn’t. In the great team – his name stood out loud and clear amongst the batsmen. That is not easy”
Ponting made his debut in 1995, yet, it was only in 2003/2004 that he first started being touted as being the best batsman in the world. For nine years, he was only one of the cogs in the Australian wheel. The Waughs, Hayden, Langer and Gilchrist, were at various times, were more valuable batsmen for Australia than he was. So your notion that his ‘name stood out loud and clear among the batsmen’ is not quite right. I am not suggesting he was not a good batsman for Australia during this time, but no one ever suggested he was one of the best batsmen in the world (forget THE best).
“Equally since he was in a great team, what is the motivation to play well. You know that if you don’t do well, someone else would come and do the job”
That’s not true. In any walk of life, you surround yourself with over-achievers, and your own level of achievement increases. Your standards automatically improve, and motivating yourself is so much easier. That’s why schools and colleges group students of ‘equal ability’ together into sections. If you’re part of a group where you’re hailed for averaging B, why would you ever aspire to an A?
That goes for cricket teams too. Throughout history, batsmen and bowlers who were part of a winning, dominant team always punched above their weight. It is much harder to motivate yourself to drag a team along with your performances like Tendulkar, and to a lesser extent Lara, used to do.
Why, you can see the same pattern in Ponting’s record too. Have you seen his test record ever since McGrath and Warne retired? Over 20-odd test matches, he is averaging in the mid-forties (a whole ten points below his career average). Cricinfo ran an article on that not too long ago. You might be able to dig it out if you search for it.
“If Ponting plays for 20 years, it easy to see he will overtake SRT’s stats at least in terms of runs”
Ponting’s record was merely ‘very good’ from the time he started in 1995 to 2003. It became ‘great’ for a period of four-five years until 2007, whereupon it went back to being merely ‘very good’ once again.
Tendulkar’s, on the other hand, has stayed at ‘great’ (a 50+ test average) for most of the 20 years he has played – maybe not for the first year or two of his career.
So if you choose the method of extrapolation to say Ponting would have been as great as Tendulkar IF he had played for 20 years, where do you stop? Bevan would have been a much better ODI batsman than any in history IF he had played for 440 ODIs.
Clyde Walcott would have been a ‘greater’ batsman than Gavaskar IF he had played 125 tests at his 57 average.
Greame Pollock, Herbert Sutcliffe, and George Headley would have broken the 10,000 run test barrier much earlier IF they had only played 100 test matches.
You see the pointlessness of the ‘IF’ argument, surely?
The truth of the matter is, it is much harder to maintain a consistent batting performance of a large period of time than it is to do it over a short period of time. With Ponting, take any period of is career other than 2003-2007 and you will see he is a mortal. With Tendulkar, take ANY three year period in his career, and he will be averaging fifty or thereabouts.
He is only one of three batsmen to average 50+ during the 1990s, when Test Match bowling was at its hardest.
Ponting is only one (albeit leading) of the myriad batsmen who average 50+ this decade, when Test Match bowling is at its easiest.
“Equally his test average is better than SRT’s. So stats wise Ponting most likely will beat SRT’s record”
See above rant on averages.
“Added to it, the wins in tournaments, the WC’s, the test series wins”
This is not a comparison of Tendulkar and Ponting; this is a comparison of India vs Australia.
“Hmm I sure SRT might look at that whole package with more than a touch of envy”
Tendulkar would envy Ponting’s situation of having the luxury of being part of a great team for most of his years, and hitting his peak as a batsman at exactly the time when bowling and pitch standards deteriorated all over the world.
But does Tendulkar envy Ponting the batsman? I don’t think so.
Also, just in passing, have a look at Ponting’s Home and Away record, and compare it with Tendulkar’s Home and Away record. A simple query on Statsguru will help.
So you see, Ponting’s claim to greatness has a few chinks in it, and I doubt serious followers of the game would ever place him in the same league as Tendulkar and Lara. He is, and always will be, one rung lower – that one step behind. And it wouldn’t change if he overtook Tendulkar by the time he’s finished.
[Reply]
Megha Reply:
November 10th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
There you go Dilip…That’s pretty much on the lines of what I was thinking, and then some more! I don’t think I can add much to what Sharath has said. Do let us know if you are convinced yet
@Sharath..whoa! good one!
[Reply]
Dilip Reply:
November 11th, 2009 at 10:33 am
Sharath
I haven’t looked at the stats, but I find it extremely hard to recollect that SRT was rated as one amongst the BEST say from 1992 ( forget his first three years) to late 90′s. Sure there was the debate between him and Lara as to who was better, and if memory serves me right, Lara at that point seemed to get the nod. Why ? Seemingly there was this bugbear of SRT not quite being a matchwinner !
Equally amusing is you then compare Ponting from 1995 onwards. Minor quibble that though.
What I need to check up is what SRT averaged when he was the captain twice for India. Ponting has been the ODI captain from 2003 and took over the test reins from Jan 2004. That would make interesting reading I’m sure. You can’t deny that being a captain has it’s added pressure. Or would you swat away that argument with saying SRT was a dud captain and thus can’t compare
I don’t recollect a SRT innings when he was captain, like what Ponting played in 2005 against Eng to save the test for Aus ( the 152 innings).
I take your point that if you are in a team of superstars you are pushed to perform better – but the fact is when push came to shove, he managed to do it and some more !
You then say from early 2000′s the bowling has been easy. Fair enough, but then if SRT is that much better than Ponting, how come the averages don’t quite reflect it ? Do throw some more stats my way to disprove it
Equally , it’s an undisputable fact that in all of India’s AWAY triumphs from early 2000′s it’s not SRT who had a hand, but a certain RD.
Stats are just one part of the puzzle – if you are rated as best of the current decades and more, the match winning doesn’t quite add up.
[Reply]
Sharath Reply:
November 11th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
“and if memory serves me right, Lara at that point seemed to get the nod”
Lara got the nod? Who from? Throughout the 1990s, it was a close-run thing between Tendulkar and Lara, and it’s a generally widely-accepted notion that while Lara’s occasional flashes of brilliance were awe-inspiring, it was Tendulkar who was more consistent. But the point under discussion is not Lara and Tendulkar. It’s Ponting and Tendulkar. And the point is that Ponting, during the period 1995-2002, was never mentioned by anyone the world over as being among the best batsmen of his age. He was merely one of the ‘good’ batsmen going around.
“What I need to check up is what SRT averaged when he was the captain twice for India”
Sure, go ahead and check it (I already have). As I said, take ANY three year period in his career at random, and odds are that he will average 50+ in tests and 40+ in ODIs during that period.
“You can’t deny that being a captain has it’s added pressure”
It depends on who you’re captaining. Steve Waugh has the best captaincy record of all Australian captains, yet why is Allan Border widely considered their best captain? Because Border captained a bunch of no-hopers and still managed to average 50. Waugh captained a bunch of greats and averaged 50. Big difference.
Tendulkar, for the record, captained a bunch of no-hopers and still managed a very good batting record during the time.
“I don’t recollect a SRT innings when he was captain, like what Ponting played in 2005 against Eng to save the test for Aus”
Melbourne, 1999.
South Africa, 1997
England, 1997.
I just gave you three off the top of my head.
“but then if SRT is that much better than Ponting, how come the averages don’t quite reflect it”
Because Tendulkar happened to enter the most injury-ridden phase of his career at exactly the same time. Ponting, on the other hand, made merry.
Simple stat, Dilip. How many batsmen average 50+ in the 1990s? Three.
How many do so in the 2000s? 17, if I remember correctly. What does that tell you?
“Equally , it’s an undisputable fact that in all of India’s AWAY triumphs from early 2000’s it’s not SRT who had a hand, but a certain RD”
Er, not true. Adelaide would not have happened without Agarkar. Kolkata would not have happened without Harbhajan. Look at any of our ‘great’ test victories, and you see a good bowling performance. In the 1990s, we simply did not have bowlers that put in that kind of performances away from home.
But this is off-topic. There is no such thing as a ‘matchwinning’ test batsman, because to win test matches, you need to take twenty wickets. There is a maxim: Bowlers win you test matches (McGrath and Warne, check), batsmen win you one-dayers.
And how does Tendulkar do in ODIs? 32 of his 45 ODI hundreds are matchwinning. He averages 53 in matches India won, and 32 in matches India lost – that’s a matchwinning batsman for you.
Just to make one point clear, the question here is Tendulkar vs Ponting as batsmen. The question is NOT about how well their TEAMS have done. Because then, that would be a ‘India vs Australia’ question. We all know the answer to that one
[Reply]
Dilip Reply:
November 12th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
I couldn’t let myself get beaten up over everything to do with Ponting. Here’s one stat SRT doesn’t have and ONLY Ponting has.
Two hundreds in his 100′th test against South Africa and at home. Beat that all you SRT devotees
Sharath – that one Ponting innings as captain saved the test for Aus. ok with help from Mcgrath and Lee who survived the last 24 balls.
SRT – Melbourne – lost – in the 5′th day with the first day ruined due to rain- so in effect a four day defeat.
SRT – South Africa – lost. A thumping in four days again. And for this innings didn’t he have Azhar as company, who also scored a 100 ?
England – ahem which innings is this ?
[Reply]
Dilip Reply:
November 12th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
Just checked stats as captain for SRT and RP.
SRT, career average : 54.58, and as captain : 51.35, so lower albeit only slightly.
RP, carerr average : 55.88, and as captain : 55.79. No effect on personal form when he’s been the captain.
So fair enough that you say that Ponting has handled the captaincy burden better ?
This is even more brilliant stat !
SRT’s average consistently DROPS going from the first innings to fourth :
71, 53, 44, 38
Compare that to RP :
65, 57, 42, 54
Not quite a ringing endorsement of SRT is it ? How could anyone explain his averages come the business end of a test match ???
As to his stunning ODI averages, he IMHO failed when he really needed to be a match winner . I’m referring to the WC 03 final. RP 140*, SRT 4. It wasn’t quite a ringing endorsement again, when he didn’t try and stay at the wicket. Sure the target was an absurd 360, but he failed. For someone widely regarded as god, that just won’t do
[Reply]
Sharath Reply:
November 12th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
“SRT, career average : 54.58, and as captain : 51.35,”
“So fair enough that you say that Ponting has handled the captaincy burden better ?”
Er, no, because there is a big difference between captaining a team of greats and captaining a team of no-hopers. I am beginning to wonder if you’re even reading my posts :-/
“SRT’s average consistently DROPS going from the first innings to fourth :
71, 53, 44, 38
Compare that to RP :
65, 57, 42, 54″
So who decides what the “business end” of a test match is? It is as important to set up your team with a high first innings score as it is to chase a target down in the last innings. For every crumbling Wankhede where batting last is a nighmare, there is an Adelaide where conditions stay true throughout, and there is a Headingley where batting first is almost impossible.
I could make an argument from those same numbers saying, “Where is Ricky Ponting when the team needs him to score a century and set things up for his team?”
You get me?
“As to his stunning ODI averages, he IMHO failed when he really needed to be a match winner”
Over 450 games, he averages 21 points more in team wins than he does in losses. And you say he failed when he needed to be a match-winner? Sorry, that just doesn’t wash for me. Specific examples like the WC final are aberrations when you have such a glaring statistic staring at you in the face.
And, as I mentioned before, 32 of his hundreds were matchwinning efforts. If you choose the ignore the evidence, it’s not really my problem.
Sharath Reply:
November 12th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
“Two hundreds in his 100′th test against South Africa and at home”
I don’t quite understand the relevance of this stat to the argument. So you’re saying Ponting is a better batsman than Tendulkar is because he made two hundreds in his hundredth test?
“SRT – Melbourne – lost – in the 5′th day with the first day ruined due to rain- so in effect a four day defeat”
Once again, whether the test match ended in a loss or a win is not a comparison between Tendulkar and Ponting. It’s a comparison between India and Australia as teams.
You implied that Tendulkar couldn’t handle the pressures of captaincy, but I’ve given you evidence that he has scored chanceless centuries while he was captain, and while the rest of the team was falling around him. (He scored 169 from 45/5 in the Centurion Test, as captain).
“SRT – South Africa – lost”
Again, what’s your point? By giving you those examples, I am giving you evidence that Tendulkar has scored centuries in pressure situations as captain. By saying India lost, you’re only accentuating the point that India was a far inferior team to Australia. It says nothing about how much better Ponting is compared to Tendulkar.
“England – ahem, which innings is this?”
My mistake – the 177 he got at Nottingham was before he became captain.
Once again, to reiterate, you need to draw a line between a batsman’s performances and the team’s performances, especially in test matches. Because over five days, the better team usually outs. And Ponting always had the luxury of playing in a great team.
For instance, if you were to play the “Yeah he got a century but the team lost” game with Border’s scores, how will you fare? And yet, Border was a better batsman than Ponting is. Why? Because it’s much harder making runs as a member of a weak team than it is making them as part of a great team. It really is that simple.
[Reply]
Dilip Reply:
November 12th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
Oh I’m reading your posts but sometimes fail to understand how you swipe away facts for fun !
For ex, SRT averages 71 in the first innings and Ponting averages 65. Fine for SRT and your argument sake.
But pray how do you defend his 38 in the fourth innings against Pontings 54. Which is a negative differential of 16, compared to a positive differential of 6 in the first innings !!!
If your argument is that with a postive difference of 6 SRT set’s the game up for India, then equally you would have to admit he lets the team down with his fourth innings performance. I’m certain though that you would refute this arguement as well !
And I’m was not comparing India vs Australia with the averages, was I ?? It’s the ability of one batsmen to perform against the other. Why you bringing up the teams here ?
I find it amusing that you bring up the one (??) raging turner in Mumbai and stack that up against Adelaide.
How about me saying Ponting made 197 against Pak at Perth when it was the fastest pitch in the world ? You get my drift here ?
Ponting bats at 3, Tendulkar at 4. So who would come into face whatever music the pitch or the bowlers are singing earlier ?
Btw that stat of Ponting in his 100′th test was only to give you evidence for something that Tendulkar doesn’t have and one for which you can’t give a counter arguement for !
Equally if not performing in a WC final ( probably the only one he would play in) is fine, when compared to his overall stats, is fine with you, suit yourself pal. I just find it criminal that for someone rated as one of the best ever, chooses his one shining moment, to flop big time.
Also if memory serves me right, 24 of Ponting’s 28 ODI centuries has resulted in wins. So going by % ages or just pure numbers, who does better ?
Dilip Reply:
November 12th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
Two things Sharath :
1 I needed to have spell checked the last reply to you. Some of the statements don’t quite read well. Apologies for that !
2. We really need to take this discussion out of this blog
We are using Megha’s blog to have a discussion !! Sounds a touch unfair to me, esp since since she’s kept stony silence !
Sharath
10 Nov 09 at 1:01 am
@ Megha : THANKS . It’s an eggless cake that’s for sure
. By the way, Ajit Agarkar wishes you Happy Birthday and bowls a 36 mph toe-massaging yorker at you.
Sharath- absolutely superb stuff, and that is the core of the whole debate! Wonderful man.
morethanjustagame.wordpress.com
[Reply]
Megha Reply:
November 10th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
You are most welcome MTJAG..may I ask what is with you and Ajit Agrakar? I saw your comment @ Purna’s too…and to be honest with you, I am a little disturbed and a little concerned about you…c’mon you can tell me
[Reply]
MoreThanJustAGame
10 Nov 09 at 4:51 am
Yeah, I share Megha’s puzzlement on that. Why Ajit Agarkar of all people? Toe-massaging yorkers? :-/
Come on, spill. What do you know that we don’t?
[Reply]
Sharath
10 Nov 09 at 9:07 pm
Megha, Sharath,
I am astounded that you fail to recognize, appreciate and submit to the astonishing and awesomeness that is Ajit Agarkar. He is a cult hero in our books. For a guy who was supposed to be the second coming of God (was supposedly the next Kapil Dev), for him to stick on to the Indian Team for such a long time when every single performance, statistic would convince even a novice watcher that he should never even sniff his own Ranji team (only claim to fame – fastest 50 ODI wickets back then), for him to destroy many a promising career (of indian players) in the process , by simply appearing on the field convinced us that there’s a power in him that goes beyond the human eye. He stayed in the team or in contention for an inordinate amount of time, and is possibly still up for selection as we speak. There can only be 2 possibilities for this:
1. Either he has been sleeping with the selectors
2. He is a supernatural being. The Creator.
Naturally the first does not make sense, and so we believe that it is the 2nd. And since that day, Ajit Agarkar, incredibly dangerous eyes and near elephant-like ears , his 40 mph toe-massagers (since he couldn’t bowl much faster than that), and all else concerning him has reached new levels of worship for us at MTJAG. In an older article, we had paid tribute (a la chuck norris style) to Dilshan (and the dilscoop), who is the closest to touching the greatness of Ajit Agarkar. A quick couple of pointers from there :
- Dilshan has officially been included in the list of “The Ten biggest threats to our galaxy.” The other 9 are Ajit Agarkar and his 8 illegitimate children.
- Dilshan’s Dilscoop was actually first discovered accidentally by him when he tried to protect his toes from being vaporized due to Ajit Agarkar’s 40 km/h toe-crushing yorker.
-Dilshan eats plutonium on a daily basis, which explains his 3 radioactive balls.
If this does not convince you all to fantasize about the phenom that is AA, we’re losing faith in humanity.
morethanjustagame.wordpress.com
[Reply]
MoreThanJustAGame
11 Nov 09 at 5:13 am
While I am all for taking the mickey out of someone just for the heck of it, I often think most of the criticism that comes Agarkar’s way is unfounded. After all, he never made any claims to being a great all-rounder. It was us who set him up to be the next Kapil Dev, and then we conveniently knock him down when he failed to live up to our expectations.
288 ODI wickets in 191 matches at 27.85 and 32.9 are very good numbers – much better than the bowlers we have now.
Also, having watched him bowl at his peak, I can give you specific examples of when he turned ODI matches with his second spells. Remember the Singer Akai Nidahas Trophy final, the one where Tendulkar and Ganguly put on 252 for the first wicket? A little remembered fact is that it was Agarkar who snaffled up four wickets (two in second spell to remove Ranatunga and De Silva, who were cruising along) to set up the win. Tendulkar got the man of the match award for that game, but MY man of the match was Agarkar.
I remember at least three other instances where the cause seemed lost and Agarkar would suddenly produce a wicket or two to turn the game.
He was a very good ODI bowler for us. Calling him not good enough to ‘snfff his own Ranji team’ is a bit unfair.
Besides, he is a softie at heart. He loves ducks!
[Reply]
Sharath
11 Nov 09 at 9:44 am
“Naturally the first does not make sense…”
I don’t see why not.
[Reply]
Sharath
11 Nov 09 at 9:50 am
Sharath
It’s all in good jest man! AA was, is , and forever will be in our heart of hearts. He’s an MTJAG legend. You can breathe easy now!!
“Naturally the first does not make sense…”
It doesn’t make sense because Ajit Agarkar does not need to sleep with anyone for favors. Ajit Agarkar feels no emotions, no lust, no sentiments. Ajit Agarkar just bowls 36 mph toe-massagers.
[Reply]
MoreThanJustAGame
11 Nov 09 at 10:23 am
@ Dilip
Sigh, I knew it would come to this.
I give you Ponting’s Home and Away average as evidence, you choose not to see it.
I give you Ponting’s average after McGrath and Warne’s retirements, you choose not to see it.
I give you Ponting’s average before 2002 as evidence, you choose not to see it.
I give you historical examples as evidence, you choose not to see it.
If all you can find in Tendulkar’s record to nitpick about is his fourth innings test average, and if you think that makes Ponting a better batsman, suit yourself.
For me, the fact that Ponting’s away average is bad, the fact that he got most of his test runs when he was part of a great team and when bowling standards and pitch standards fell to an all-time low, the fact that he still has chinks against quality spin and quality swing bowling, the fact that he was nowhere to be seen when the best bowlers in the world were in operation during the 1990s…all these are evidence enough to conclude that he never was, and never will be, as good a batsman as Lara or Tendulkar were.
If it’s not evidence enough for you, then it’s obviously a matter of opinion, and let’s leave it at that. No disgrace in disagreeing
[Reply]
Dilip Reply:
November 12th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
Just some more Ponting stat’s before I call it a night. God bless Cricinfo !
Pontings average under all captains in tests goes :
Made his debut when Mark Taylor was captain ( 1995-98) : 37
Then played under Steve Waugh ( 99 – 2004) :64
Had two tests when Gilchrist stepped in for Waugh : 80
Then as Captain himself : 56.
So save for his first three years , I’m sorry but how does Ponting fare worse than Tendulkar ?
Do tell me this – have the ICC boffins made a rule which I’m not aware of ?
So for argument sake , in one test if Ponting has made 0, and Aus ( having both Warne/Mcgrath) has won the test, do the ICC decide – Aus won, and Ponting didn’t meet his average of 50, so we’ll award him the runs he needs to keep up his average ?????????
Besides not facing Warne/Mcgrath – Ponting has faced all the bowlers Tendulkar has. Equally I could say Tendulkar didn’t have to face Chucker Singh and Kumble on rank turners in India. I wouldn’t though.
I’m nitpicking – that’s amusing pal ! You take Tendulkars avg in first innings as the be it and end it of all. No seeing what he has done after that. I’m not that narrow minded – I think as a batsman first or fourth innings – if you are rated as very good, you better perform.
Ah well, to each his own in the end I suppose.
Just curious though , who do you rate as better : Warne or Murali ?
[Reply]
Sharath
12 Nov 09 at 10:21 pm
I’ve already summed up my argument in the last post, and I don’t think we’re getting through to each other. So I will stop with this.
Though I have to say, this didn’t make any sense to me:
“Aus won, and Ponting didn’t meet his average of 50, so we’ll award him the runs he needs to keep up his average ?????????”
As a general final comment, no one is arguing here that Ponting’s numbers are as good as Tendulkar’s. It is the ‘why’ behind the numbers that we’re debating.
Warne or Murali? Warne, but only by a whisker.
[Reply]
Sharath
13 Nov 09 at 1:05 am
Wow! great stuff!
A birthday threat turned into a big time discussion
Great arguments Sharath and Dilip, but the best batsman ever will be the lovechild which is going to be born out of Praveen Kumar and Bhajji, and it’s not even close.
Errr……. happy birthday SillyMaidon?
[Reply]
Megha Reply:
November 13th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
I bow to thee for enlightning me on the wonder that is Agarkar. He was an expensive bowler but he did get wickets. I guess those big fat ducks were too much in the end!
“…but the best batsman ever will be the lovechild which is going to be born out of Praveen Kumar and Bhajji, and it’s not even close.”
OK stop now. *shudder*
[Reply]
MoreThanJustAGame
13 Nov 09 at 6:09 am
@ Sharath
For fear of flogging a dead horse, but my last and final attempt as well.
For starters me trying some humour hasn’t worked , so will leave out trying to explain the ‘ Aus won, and thus Ponting gets 50 runs credit, whether he has scored or not’ bit.
I look at batting as purely this : it’s you against the wicket and the bowlers. If you are good enough to last long enough and in the process score runs, the numbers would stack up themselves. If you aren’t , well the averages would reflect that as well. Also the mental aspect would play a part too.
Secondly you can’t score runs all by yourself, like how ‘ gully cricket’ can be played.i.e. with just one batsman. So someone needs to stick with you, it could be many, it could be just one.
Even with someone/many sticking around, you score your own runs. No one can do it for you.
Hope the above is as clear as I can make it.
Admittedly Ponting has played in a world class team for long parts of his career, unlike Tendulkar. BUT and here it comes – HE HAS TO SCORE THE RUNS ALL BY HIMSELF.
If you now refute all the numbers Ponting has stacked up by saying he played in a good team, I just don’t buy it. Sorry. For the very reason I’ve said in capital letters above.
You look at his away record and say – poor. Equally he averages 61 in Aus. Now it’s well known wickets in Aus do offer more to the bowlers, than the fat pancake tracks in India. So in essence the fact that he averages 61 is testamount to his talent.
His bug bear has been the record in India – and just based on that one blemish, you saying he can’t be rated as equal to Tendulkar ? I don’t buy that as well.
Tendulkar averages 36 against South Africa, while Ponting averages 56. Based on their performances against admittedly the second best team in the world for the best part of 2000′s would you then say Tendulkar is bad ?
Sure Ponting has come in many a time with the score reading 100 /1, but then if he wasn’t good enough consistently, he would get out soon as well. Over the course of his career he’s made sure that his own individual stats stack up well against the teams stats. No one gave him freebies or runs just because he played for Australia.
You commented that Tendulkar hasn’t gorged on the weak attacks because he entered the most injury prone phase of his career- for me that’s a cop out. If you don’t train well enough or hard enough – and you get injured tough luck !
Sorry pal, but I don’t buy your argument that Ponting will be rated lower than Tendulkar or Lara.
Lastly, you picked Warne over Murali – for me that’s very strange considering you use just numbers for arguments.
Warne played for Aus, he had Mcgrath/Gillespie/Lee – so his stats need to be dumbed down. Poor Murali – he’s done it all on his own !!
I’ve always rated Warne as the best bowler. He didn’t fatten his record against Zim/Bang, unlike Murali who has about 200 wickets against them. For me that alone is enough to not rate Murali high.
[Reply]
Megha Reply:
November 13th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Dilip, Sharath
My apologies for not being apart of this fascinating discussion. Life got in the way. Plus I am not a very statistically inclined person. So I could never have dug out all those numbers that you and Sharath did. My thoughts on both players are as much to do with the numbers as to my perception about them in general. My additions on the discussion -
1. Tendulkar started playing at the age of 16. He has been playing for 20 years non-stop, never left out of the team for performance issues. Please tell me how many other such teenage prodigies do you know of who have lasted so long, performed consistently and acheived so much. Here is a link to help you along..youngest players on debut http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/content/records/209994.html. I am not saying that Ponting loses out here because he did not get picked when he was 17. But Ponting did not have the kind of burden on him that Sachin did. It is not easy dealing with the kind of adulation, criticism and expectations day in and day out that Sachin did. Sachin carried his own aspirations and the weight of the team and all Indian cricket fans on himself. Performing thus for a long period of 20 years is no joke.
2. You cite Ponting’s avg as a captain and say he handled the pressure of captaincy better. I say he had better resources than Sachin had. Plus, he did not have to struggle with that obnoxious species called the Indian selectors. (Refer to these links and see what Sachin had to counter with other than his team
http://www.rediff.com/sports/mar/4d.htm
http://www.rediff.com/sports/1998/jan/05a.htm
http://www.rediff.com/sports/1998/apr/29b.htm
worth your while)
3. You referred to WC ’03 to give an example of SRT not being a match winner. But you conviniently forgot to see that Tendulkar is the highest run getter in WCs.
SRT – 36 matches, 1796 runs
RP – 39 matches, 1537 runs
You want to compare for just those WCs where both RP and SRT played? Even better!
SRT – 28 matches, 1513 runs
RP – 39 matches 1537 runs
The fact that India did not manage to win the cup is because it was India that needed to step up it’s game for the win, not just Sachin. The bowlers allowed Aus to get to 360. How many teams have chased down that kind of score in the history of the game?
4. Another little stat that I did dig out. In the 90s SRT scored 22 test centuries, 4 of which resulted in victories for India. In this decade, where I think we all will agree that India became a better team, 12 of his 20 centuries resulted in Indian victories. I think that is proof enough that team matters as much as your personal contribution when it comes to winning matches.
5. Ricky Ponting is Pricky Ranting. He is an obnoxious, arrogant, cheating, lying pig. Just for that Tendulkar is much greater than him.
Nobody here is denying that Ponting is a great batsman. What we disagree on is that he is greater than Tendulkar. I repeat what I said at Armball. Because he was part of an incredible team for almost all the years he has played, his match-winning abilities appear stronger than they should be. And Tendulkar’s seem less so because he has played with a relatively weaker one.
After reading your back and forth with Sharath it also seems to me that there is a clash in our thoughts as to what factors to consider while judging a batsman. Which is fair enough. So shall we call it quits on Dilip thinks Ponting is the best batsman of this era and Sharath and Megha think it is SRT?
[Reply]
Dilip Reply:
November 13th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
Megha
Cheers for your perspective on the RP/SRT bit. Minor quibbles but after this post ( I’ll call it quits as well.
My only grouse is that Sharath ( and you as well) reckon Ponting shouldn’t be mentioned in the same breath as Tendulkar because of their respective teams.
I kindly disagree on that simply because of my last post – batting is an individual thing within a team. If you are good, your averages will reflect it and vice versa.
I’m amazed that you use all the stats to rate SRT better than RP – but then please do explain their respective stats against South Africa – who we all agree were right behind Aus in the rankings ! SRT’s record doesn’t look too flash does it ?
On the whole SRT is squeaky clean – wasn’t he the same bloke who was caught ‘ tampering’ the ball and got a ban in South Africa in 2001 ? Was it intentional,. was it tampering who knows ? But he has that blot on his record doesn’t he ?
I’m not sure where you got the idea that I rate Ponting better than Tendulkar – I don’t. What I FIRMLY BELIEVE on this statement : Ponting alongwith Tendulkar and Lara are the prime batsmen of the last 15 years. Period.
[Reply]
Megha Reply:
November 13th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Sharath
Good work man. Thank you for holding the fort on SRT’s and my behalf single-handedly. Just one thing.
You NEVER undermine RD on my blog. NEVER EVER.
[Reply]
Sharath Reply:
November 14th, 2009 at 2:19 am
“You NEVER undermine RD on my blog. NEVER EVER”
I beg your forgiveness, most sincerely. I was not aware of the rule
[Reply]
Dilip
13 Nov 09 at 11:14 am
“Ponting alongwith Tendulkar and Lara are the prime batsmen of the last 15 years. Period”
That’s the point of difference, then. Ponting, in my book, will always be one step behind Tendulkar and Lara.
Though the picture is clear enough based on just statistics, there is qualitative evidence as well.
Ponting has weaknesses in his batting, while it is generally accepted (by most who follow the game) that Lara and Tendulkar didn’t have any.
I have not yet heard of any bowler of importance quote Ponting as the ‘hardest batsmen to bowl to’. Whereas Tendulkar and Lara regularly won such platitudes. We’re talking all-time greats here, like Akram, Younis, Donald, Warne, Murali, Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Brett Lee…
I have not heard any PAST greats praise Ponting (I am discounting Australians here, just as I will discount Indians in the case of Tendulkar) as an ‘all-time great batsman’, while Lara and Tendulkar were regularly referred to as such.
I am talking Viv Richards, Barry Richards, Don Bradman and many more.
So I don’t know, Dilip. You’re entitled to your opinion, of course, but both quantitative and qualitative evidence seem to point to Tendulkar and Lara over Ponting.
But as I said, I have no right to question your opinion
Boy Megha, look how much mileage your blog got because of this (pretty pointless) argument
[Reply]
Sharath
14 Nov 09 at 2:11 am